User talk:Lynkfox

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Old Discussions


So I need to write up Choke for Chokepoint's page, and so I need to ask some questions.

Basically, I was wondering exactly what info you want to have on/attached to Mini Nemeses pages, and how it should be attached (basically all in one like we have now, or separate tabbed sections), so I know whether to create a separate stripped down MinorCharacter template mostly for mainpage use that just allows for usage on subpages too, or if I should stuff a few more structural options into the CharacterCard template.

...and Citizen Hammer and Anvil are going to be... urk. We need pages for both of them separate as Team Villains and as Citizen Dawn cards. All four as subpages of Citizen Hammer and Anvil? Need to figure out how would I name those subpages that doesn't cause coding snarls. Or I could have just the team villain versions as subpages of the joint page and then two separate mini nemesis style pages. Or not write up their Citizen Dawn cards at all. All of these have tradeoffs of some sort. (The first causes potential coding snarls, the second departs from how we currently write up the Citizens, the last leaves information off the wiki.) Jeysie (talk) 07:34, 15 March 2017 (CDT)

So you want Choke as a separate page from Chokepoint, with tabs between the two, like how we're doing the hero/villain thing? I can do that. I'd actually been considering having something like that anyway, where instead of the current line "Found in [Character's] deck", we'd put as a tab [Character's Deck]. What do you think?

As for Hammer & Anvil... why did I not think of that? I think that might actually be a good idea (since stripping parentheses from text is not very difficult). I feel silly for not thinking of it myself. >_>;

I think, though, I'll actually create two separate main pages, and name them like that, since it pretty much matches what the Choke idea will end up as. Thanks! Jeysie (talk) 15:25, 18 March 2017 (CDT)

I also realized that since I already solved how to have multiple card galleries on a page for Sky-Scraper, I can likely reuse that for handling Hammer & Anvil as minions, or any other group minions. I think I'll still have Team Villain Hammer and Anvil as separate subpages, though, at least until I see how the digital game is going to handle them. (Like, if they have joint bio stats or separate bio stats.)

As for the Organization minions... heh. You know, I originally just wanted to convert the major characters and then work on the rest later, but I've realized that everything's so incredibly interconnected that I actually have to design... like... everything. I need a minor character setup for Choke. I need an environment setup for Omnitron. Blargh. At least the minor characters and environment pages are substantially simpler to work with.

Am also working on the image filename list. Jeysie (talk) 07:07, 20 March 2017 (CDT)

Moving Images

Were you going to do this with some sort of bot or admin mass moving thingy, or just one by one manually yourself?

Because if it's the one by one bit, I may as well do it myself as I go along working on things, to save the amount of double-checking I need to do. But if you have a mass-moving deal instead, I'll finish making the list and let you do you. Jeysie (talk) 12:29, 21 March 2017 (CDT)

Okies, I'll keep cooking up the list. Though I would move one file by itself first just to make sure it doesn't mess with existing pages. Make sure to keep the redirects after moving, and that should hopefully keep things functional. Jeysie (talk) 18:25, 21 March 2017 (CDT)

OK, this should be the list, I hope. I think I have it formatted according to what your MoveBatch thingy says it needs, but if not, tell me and I'll upload a list of just the filenames for you.

The overall structure I decided on is basically: [character name] [variant name] [Standard/Foil] [Front/Back].png I felt like this was probably the best compromise between "can be autogenerated in templates" and "keeps all character images grouped together" that I could think up.

Though there's some tweaks here and there either for the couple Enhanced Edition images, readability (not repeating the redundant base character name on Scholar of the Infinite and Omnitron-U mainly) or to keep a character's images all grouped together (so it's Operative Chairman and not Chairman Operative). But coding for these exceptions isn't too complicated.

Like I said, probably should do one image or one character's images first and make sure things don't break on existing pages. And make sure to keep the automatic redirects.

Also please delete

I realized that until we actually have the separate image files for them (I'm assuming they're separate cards in their deck; dunno if that's right or not) I instead had to create two different redirects to our one existing image that has both Hammer and Anvil on it. But then I goofed and made one of the redirects in the Main namespace and not the File namespace. :P

Let me know if you want to rename the portrait and icons too, though we don't really need to since those are already pretty consistently named aside from a few outliers I created redirects for. Jeysie (talk) 06:23, 25 March 2017 (CDT)

1) Oops on not realizing you needed the File: bit. Well, I tried to make this easier on you... [sweatdrop]

2) & 3) I intentionally chose the images with "full" to be what was moved because I wanted to use only the images that had the full card text in the card gallery for the heroes, wherever we had one available. So you didn't mess up, you did what I wanted you to do (re: using the black border cards in places).

We could maybe create additional galleries on the page for the art-only stuff if you want, along with a different naming scheme for the art-only stuff: Good idea for villain pages in the future at least now that you make me think of it, since the text obviously obscures the art more on those than it does on hero cards.

Seems kinda redundant for hero cards, though, since currently it looks more like our art-only images are just "hero card with the text part chopped off" rather than "full art with no text". Especially since Sky-Scraper's page is already loaded with galleries.

We could use "art-only" versions for the portrait bit of the Stats box, maybe, I actually thought about that at one point.

Edit: Not as redundant as I thought, looking at it, since we do actually already have some true "art-only" images for some people. Still, let's wait until we have official images so we have a proper complete set of cards-with-text for everyone and a proper complete set of full-art for everyone. Then I can worry about sticking on Artwork galleries.

Because with our current hodge-podge we're going to have a mix of art-only and with-card-text images anyway since we don't have a full set of either one, so right now I'd rather use the card-text-only images as much as possible in the card galleries for maximum information conveyed and consistency.

Probably the a naming scheme once we get a full set of art-only stuff to work with would be: [character name] [variant name] Artwork [Standard/Foil] [Front/Back].png

With the requisite tweaks needed for certain characters like I mentioned earlier. (Operative in the Chairman's deck, The Ennead folks, Team Villain Hammer & Anvil, Scholar of the Infinite, Omnitron-U).

4) Tactics images weren't moved because I haven't done the Tactics template yet so I don't know what naming scheme would work best yet for you to move them to.

5) Redirects have to stay until we're done converting or fixing any pages that use the card images so the current pages don't end up with tons of broken images, basically. Jeysie (talk) 07:18, 26 March 2017 (CDT)

You probably did move everything I wanted. Since I know we moved some original .jpg named files to be .png named files (especially with the villain images), but that was on purpose because I was basically praying it'd still work as a kludge for the time being anyway so I don't have to worry about coding for a mix of .jpg and .png versus all .png.

Then when we get the new images I'm assuming they'll all be .png, so we can just go ahead and upload right over the existing images and it'll all be sorted out right eventually anyway.

If I find out anything didn't in fact work, I'll let you know. Jeysie (talk) 10:03, 26 March 2017 (CDT)

Yeah, I love PNG too. Doesn't lose quality when you compress it more, and I feel it scales better (important on a wiki which generates many different-sized thumbnails).

Ideal would be SVG, obvs, but that's also a lot more work to deal with, so, PNG is the next best thing.

Cool beans. The rest of our images are mostly just a little haphazard, but our villain images are really... something I wouldn't mind updating.

I'll get cracking on the CharacterCard template again, though I'm also wondering if I should work on putting the References/Clarifications, or "Meta" as I called it, template into use. The template I think is pretty much done as it's pretty simple and mostly just standardizes the formatting a little around the text lists, and it still looks OK without the CSS added. I think perhaps I could simply comment out the CSS-adding part and the initial header for the time being, and it would look OK in the existing pages. I would then go through and work on getting the references/clarifications stuff not just templated but also the sources converted to REF tags and link existing pages more and cook up that interwiki link template idea I mentioned for linking to Marvel and DC-related stuff on the Marvel & DC Wikias where we reference Marvel and DC stuff.

I could also leave the initial header in but as an H2 for now, and remove the existing headers and instructions from the character pages to compensate. We'd have to use the Section Inclusion markup for the master reference/clarifications pages to exclude the initial "References/Clarifications" header that will now be on the subpages themselves... but then, we'd eventually have to do that anyway, so.

I dunno, I feel bad that most of the time I've spent on the wiki has been on these templates and not on the actual pages yet. And this part of things isn't reliant on the CSS or such the way the other stuff is, so it's something I think I can do ahead of time. Jeysie (talk) 17:20, 26 March 2017 (CDT)


I am super, super sorry if I stole your thunder or anything because you were having fun puttering around or something, but I noticed you working on the Achievements/Challenges stuff, and it poked at the problem-solving part of my brain, and I came up with this so far for the Achievements.

Basically create some new random page, put this code in it, and hit "preview":

|achievement1name=Absolute Zero
|achievement2name=Argent Adept

And then go ahead and add more heroes to play around with it.

Please ignore this and yell at me if I ruined your fun puttering time, though. ^^; Jeysie (talk) 18:35, 2 April 2017 (CDT)

It was your use of switch that got me thinking about the matter in the first place, ironically. ("Why use switch for only two options? Hmm, there might be a more elegant way to do this", basically.)

I actually also thought of either using a big switch myself, or creating a giant pre-made table, until I realized that making it more "userbox"-like and going icon-based with lots of little floating tables might work out well. (OK, technically the tables use "display:inline-block", but that's still the general idea.) But that put the Achievement names out of context, so I added in a link to each character's section on the Achievements page.

Adding in the Achievement names (could be done as a tooltip in this setup) would either require the person manually adding it in, which... kinda seems like making it overcomplicated, or require a big variable database (and yes a big f'n switch as well) to perform lookups like how I have the CutsceneData or SoundtrackData pages set up, which... kinda seems like overkill. I would prefer to do it the latter way if we did it at all, but.

Achievements didn't seem like they could be proven by a picture, but maybe it could take a log from the digital game on a place like pastebin? In which case I would create an extra optional "achievement{{#var:i}}date1log" parameter and have it create an external link around the date if it exists. You could even prefill in the "" part and have people only specify the letters in the URL as the parameter value, if you wanted to avoid the possibility of hinky spammer exploits.

For the Challenges, off the top of my head I could see having a similar mini-table setup, but the table would have a colspanned header with the villain name, then two table cells: One with a larger picture thumb (100px? 150px?) and "Challenge - (date)" as the caption underneath, the other cell the same but with "Ultimate".

That would be a lot of uploaded pictures, though. Option is turning on being able to link to external images and encouraging people to use Imgur, though that might cause a problem with the spammers since they'd be able to add images too. Of course there's also something like this which reduces that problem. (How many spammers use Imgur specifically, after all?)

(Yes, my brain works like this, instantly thinking about all this stuff. >_>;;;)

As for the Meta template, the main reason I did it first is because it doesn't require any CSS to work. The CSS I have makes it look nicer and styles the headertabs part, but it doesn't drastically change the layout/formatting the way the other pages are changed, and I don't want to add the headertabs part yet. So not needed there for now; I'd just comment out the CSS-adding bits for the time being and then add them back in when the time comes.

I did realize that in all this I forgot to find a way to add the "Edit" links back in. Because while the character info and deck sections are pretty static, the Reference pages are getting edited all the time. So for now I will put in a "edit this reference" link, and I think for the full design I'll have it just say "edit" and do some CSS hijinks to stick it up as a button in the big header tab. (That's what took me the extra time after saying I was going to do this, realizing this little hitch and having to stop to ponder how I wanted to handle it.)

(Might do the Decks next as that's also something that I think can be added to existing pages as they are now, but which actually might still need a tiny little bit of CSS. But that's down the road a bit.) Jeysie (talk) 07:39, 3 April 2017 (CDT)

Main Page

I need time to really sit and plan this out, but a general sense of what I had in mind:

Have each picture have a list of useful links underneath it. "Heroes" would have links to stuff like the Freedom Five, Prime Wardens, Dark Watch, and so on. "Villains" would have links to the Nemesis Chart, Vengeful Five, the Slaughterhouse Six, the Citizens of the Sun and so on. "Games" would list the individual editions. "Multiverse" would link to the ARG, the Clarifications, the References, etc. Stuff like that.

(This is mostly the place I need to think about; how to divvy things up and what the link lists should consist of.)

I would gut the heck out of the introduction. It pretty much should just say something like "This is the wiki for the Sentinel Comics Universe, a universe based around the various games by Greater Than Games: Sentinels of the Multiverse (both cardboard and the digital version by Handelabra Games), Sentinel Tactics, and Sentinels RPG." We could also add the bit about "a whole storyline was created in flavor text" and stuff, but it should only be a sentence or two more. It should be a really short overview blurb with just a tiny bit of hype.

Then we should actually create pages here on the wiki for Greater Than Games, Handelabra, and main hub pages for SotM and Tactics, which would go in the above "Games" list. Just about everything in our current introduction is best put on those sorts of pages here in the wiki rather than on the front page.

The Sentinels Statistics section should either be moved off the front page to the Fan Created section, or should be shortened to be a part of the list of links under that image.

The Help section should be turned into a much briefer bullet list.

The moderators section should just be nixed completely, and the copyrights should be put into the wiki footer proper.

Basically the main page is ideally an eye-catching gateway to any visitors easily accessing and getting a feel for what information is on the site, not a place to essay in and of itself. So all text on the main page should ideally be brief and to the point, with links to hub pages that have the actual usual writeups of everything. Jeysie (talk) 19:22, 30 April 2017 (CDT)

Still needs prettying up whenever my internet stops being stupid on me to let me keep fiddling properly (so this isn't a final thing yet), but this is what I was thinking of bare-bones structure-wise: User:Jeysie/HeroSandbox

Moving the copyright stuff into the wiki footer is an admin-only task, I think. And obviously just about everything in the "Games" list needs an actual page made. But this is the general idea I had. Basically it keeps the intro short, brings the navigation up "above the fold" more, and puts more navigation up front. Jeysie (talk) 15:09, 1 May 2017 (CDT)

I'll keep fiddling with mine as well. I came up with a proto CSS style that was turning the lists into interesting little narrow "blocks" with the list of links as buttons, which might look interesting with using DIVs that can shift based on screen space, so I'm going to fiddle with that idea. Jeysie (talk) 06:33, 2 May 2017 (CDT)

Couple fixes for the main page: The "Handelabra Games" link is missing a space between the end of the link and "Handelabra". And with the user names, putting a | before the ending brackets of the link will take the "User:" bit off and make it a little cleaner-looking. Jeysie (talk) 13:10, 14 May 2017 (CDT)

Fancy Hero Name Images

It should be possible from a purely technical standpoint, as each page has a class with its pagename in it, so it's perfectly possible to go, say, "do this CSS thing only on a page that has 'Legacy' as the page title".

Where to put it from a style standpoint, is the crux. Obvious suggestions are replacing the page title, putting it in the head tab, or putting it under the portrait in the Stats box. Jeysie (talk) 17:44, 2 May 2017 (CDT)


Ironically I don't think it's possible to finish the redesign until after OblivAeon hits. There's basically so many unknowns and resources we're waiting on that I would rather wait until I know exactly what I'm going to be working with and incorporating.

If nothing else I want to wait until Villains hits so I can at least see that much material directly for myself (since I keep realizing there's new stuff in Villains to incorporate that I currently can't look at directly)... and at this point I have a feeling OblivAeon is going to be done first anyway because Handelabra's clearly mostly waiting on resources from Christopher and Adam that probably will not get done until OblivAeon is done.

So my aim has been to just concentrate on the References/Clarifications and then the Decks, as that's part of the eventual redesign anyway, but can be done now. Just like I said, real life has gotten me down as of late. Jeysie (talk) 14:49, 27 May 2017 (CDT)

Mobile Tabs

I'm so sorry I've been AWOL from working on stuff... I've been stuck for a long time where I have zero energy and ability to really concentrate on much of anything complicated in general, I can't find anyone medical-wise to treat (or even diagnose) whatever issue I'm having, and attempts at self-medicating haven't worked so far. :/

(Which is annoying because I have a ton of things I'd really like to catch up on including this, but I spend all day in a mostly tired fog.)

For this in particular, just going off surface impressions without looking at the code of the two extensions, the problem might be more that I'm guessing the mobile extension strips or alters JS files rather than just altering CSS. (Since the Headertabs extension says it uses JS and notice how the tabbed links are not shown in mobile at all, rather than shown but unstyled.) And unfortunately I have to admit I don't really know JS or PHP at all; I'm only good with wikicode/HTML and CSS. :/ But that would be my guess, FWIW; your first step might be figuring out how to get the skin to not strip the JS files that make the Headertabs do their thing.

I've never been hugely fond of that particular mobile extension anyway; it strips away so much useful stuff. (Like note how it does away with the categories, too. Hurgh.) I had been trying to make my attempt at the new character page design flow well into narrow resolutions, but I guess we would have to tackle the actual wiki skin part too, wouldn't we. Hurgh. Jeysie (talk) 07:30, 7 September 2017 (CDT)

Making the content area mobile-friendly should be more time-consuming than complicated, I think. Part of why I wanted to redesign the character pages was to change them to using DIVs instead of tables, then moving on to doing the same for every other page. Then you can have the layout "flow" and change from multiple columns to single columns as the screen resolution gets smaller. You can also do things like use CSS's device detection flags to do things like make links have larger target areas for stubby fingers and styluses.

It's the actual surrounding wiki skin I'm a little fuzzier on what to do with. I think the mobile extension's deal of turning into a menu button is not the worst idea, but again I feel their default menu removed way too many options. Jeysie (talk) 06:34, 8 September 2017 (CDT)

Yeah, a mix of float and display:inline-block, and the @media rule is the catchall for a wide variety of things that can help you determine what sort of viewport you're working with.

It wasn't too hard figuring out the actual layout coding; the holdup was more getting the actual wikicode in a template to handle all the possible info inputs and spit out the stuff we were laying out. Stuff like the group pages with much more limited possible inputs should be easier to tweak. Jeysie (talk) 10:10, 9 September 2017 (CDT)

Podcast Template

Over on the GTG forums some people have been getting confused that WalkingTarget's summaries are summaries and not in fact full transcripts, so I was wondering if we should maybe modify the Transcript tab so it only shows up if someone adds an actual transcript. (I can probably figure it out if you can't, but I figured you'd have the better luck knowing where the if/else code should go since you wrote that template in the first place.) Jeysie (talk) 11:00, 15 September 2017 (CDT)

Swaptober, Podcast, & Character Pages

Here's a skeleton for the page once I know if you want the full-size 1200px original pics or something smaller uploaded. Ironically even though you were reluctant to use a gallery, I did use one because I just honestly couldn't think of a better way to do it...

Also it's just as well I never finished the character page layout because between stuff like Christopher deciding hero variants all have the same complexity, and the Letters Page sometimes retconning Multiverse bios and suggesting we do need two Lore sections (like Golem Unity or Idealist), and the current tabs not working well on mobile, I think I really need to just scrap the idea entirely and keep brainstorming.

I also feel like maybe I can think of a way to make the Podcasts table more compact. Jeysie (talk) 19:00, 3 November 2017 (CDT)

I already have the resized pics for you: They're all in PNG, so you should be able to just slap on the watermark and resave them as PNG with no loss in quality.

What I had in mind was trying to find a tab extension that lets you do internal tabs too. This one maybe. That would fit more with what I had in mind for the possible redesign and might be more mobile-friendly. (I'll probably come up with something new at least idea-wise way before January, but if I don't, you can have at it.)

Wish we had the background portraits from the video game, though; that would work awesomely for what I had in mind. At least now I can generate art for the cards as soon as I get around to screencapping them (the actual batch cropping/resizing part is really easy).

Yep, totally possible to use media on wiki CSS; that's how I was planning on doing it.

Yeah, I'm mainly thinking of splitting the podcasts into two tables, one for the episodes, one for the interludes/editor's notes, and reducing it down to episode number, topic, date for each table. Even better, that way we can make them sortable by topic. Jeysie (talk) 10:16, 4 November 2017 (CDT)

I can update the CSS to be less generic-looking at some point if you wish, but for now, here's an idea for the Podcasts page: Jeysie (talk) 14:56, 6 November 2017 (CST)

Actually I found a way to make the CSS less generic without adding too much code to the proceedings, so I just went ahead and updated the page. Jeysie (talk) 11:06, 8 November 2017 (CST)

Character Pages

Hey, you're back. :) I was wondering if you had any ideas about installing the extension that lets you do internal tabs for a page.

I had been thinking of something that would basically have a top section of main portrait + an actual proper bio that takes into account all their Letter Page retcons and fleshing out, and then a middle section which has internal tabs for all the per-card info. (Basically something like this in really basic layout, but using internal tabs to just display one big card that can be switched between instead of the smaller ones.)

Then the tabs at the top would be for major sections like Decks, Clarifications/References, and related Villain or Environment pages. Jeysie (talk) 18:50, 12 January 2018 (CST)

Basically the various realizations I've been cooking in the back of my head:

  • We're probably never going to get portraits for the various variants (now that we have full art display options in the video game I'd rather just give up on getting official art and work on screencapping and using those card images exclusively), and using cards as "portraits" just keeps being awkward and weird both in coding and visuals.
  • Having tons and tons of tabs at the top of the page just seemed nigh impossible to make look anything but weird and cluttered no matter what I did to it.
  • I agree now with your old idea that we really need a proper "lore" section separate from Multiverse bios versus stuffing the Letters Page and related retcons and elaborations into the References when References is really something different.
  • GTG has removed the idea of different variants having different complexities, making it far less useful to have separate subpages for variants.
  • We keep having more and more info like podcasts, hero themes, challenge text, and so on to stuff into Stats boxes.

So my thoughts:

One section which has the main character portrait, the universal-to-all-variants stats (stuff like podcast episode, complexity, debut set, theme song, nemeses), and the new "main lore".

A section below that which has variant-specific stuff: Stats, cards, bio, cutscenes. This has internal tabs to keep all the variants actually on the character page, but switchable between them with tabs. Likewise using internal tabs might make it easier to organize the display of what is both a growing and variable number of cards per character.

Then at the top, have the main tabs go to sub or main pages of References, Clarifications, Deck(s), RPG, Tactics, related Villain and/or Environment pages. This is still a fair number of tabs, but more manageable.

And yeah, I agree at this point that coming up with a really good layout and manually applying it for the time being and then going back and templating later might work better. Jeysie (talk) 13:37, 13 January 2018 (CST)

Gallery Tag Stuff

I have found that the loop code just really never wanted to play nice with the gallery tag for me in general, which complicates things. Looking at my own code, I had to switch to using the {{#tag:}} syntax to make any headway myself.

Also I have been following what you've been doing and have been pondering here and there what I would tweak on it, but I like where it's going as an overall concept. I think my quick critique would be to go a bit easy on the SmallCaps stuff; it works great for headings and spot text but can get hard to read in large quantities.) Jeysie (talk) 20:05, 16 March 2018 (CDT)

The {{#tag:}} code is basically an alternate way to write HTML tags that sometimes plays better with Parser Function stuff. Here's a bit of the code from some of my own initial tinkerings:

{{lc:{{#replace:{{#replace:{{#replace:{{#replace:{{#var:{{#var:v}}nemesis{{#var:n}}}}|-|}}| |}}|.|}}|'|}}}}icon.png{{!}}link={{#var:{{#var:v}}nemesis{{#var:n}}}}
|mode=nolines|widths=50px|heights=50px|caption={{#ifeq:{{#var:variantname}}|Team Villain|[[Glossary#Nemesis|Team Nemeses]]|[[Glossary#Nemesis|Nemeses]]}}}}}}|}}

If you want you can mine my code in general. I don't know how much of it will still actually apply, but there might be at least some "already solved" stuff for you to crib from somehow. Jeysie (talk) 19:39, 31 March 2018 (CDT)