User talk:WalkingTarget

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I think NightMist's magic circles might possibly be a reference to Arkham Horror/Elder Sign itself: 1 Jeysie (talk) 15:08, 17 February 2017 (CST)

I guess I can check my copies of those games when I get home to see if this specific kind of hand-glow shows up - I don't recognize the picture you link to (although I'm not doubting you). I just always associated this kind of thing with Strange, even before the movie. --WalkingTarget (talk) 16:49, 17 February 2017 (CST)

That pic is from the Dark Pharaoh/Nyarlathotep expansion for Elder Sign, if that helps. (At least for the digital version of it.) I know Strange does the magic circles too, but I couldn't help but think of that Elder Sign pic every time I see NightMist's magic circles. Jeysie (talk) 17:51, 17 February 2017 (CST)

That would explain why I don't recognize it, I don't have the app, only the board game. A little digging shows that app expansion came out in 2013 and Infernal Relics was fall 2012. Looking through what I could of the board game materials, these 3 spells are the closest in terms of "glowing hands" (there were other contenders in Unique Items or Spells with glowing fingers/traced motion of a hand, but not in terms of mandala-like circles). I mean, they're all probably derivative of the same kinds of thing; I just think that Strange is the closest comic book analogue.--WalkingTarget (talk) 18:59, 17 February 2017 (CST)

The artwork in the app all comes from the Elder Sign board game since when I can find pics of cards for the Elder Sign board game I can see the artwork matches what I know from the app, but I have no way of knowing comprehensively which art maps to which carid. (Since the board game expansions and the app expansions don't seem to map one on one either.)

I guess I was just thinking about what to choose when an Arkham Horror-inspired character by the Arkham Horror designer has a design aspect that is similar to both an Arkham Horror franchise game and to an entirely different property. [shrug] Jeysie (talk) 05:44, 18 February 2017 (CST)

The best I have been able to make out is that the art on the page you linked (not just the "Hold them off" one we're interested in), is that they represent art from the locations/adventure cards. It makes sense that they'd have detailed art not reused from Arkham Horror (I have everything for it, but only the base game from Elder Sign and it doesn't occur anywhere in either), and also a reason to have specific titles overlaid on the artwork. It seems to me, however that there is simply different content available for the digital version; specifically I see gameplay videos for the Dark Pharaoh content that involves travel outside of Arkham and a multi-phase "campaign" style of play and as far as I know this is not supported by the card game (in addition to the fact that Nyarlathotep is available in the base game, with the Dark Pharaoh "mask" monster tile already). And this is just trying to find the single card/image that has this style of magic effect among the many examples that do not.

My main point is simply that it's possible to have more than one source of inspiration and it makes sense for our resident magic user to have at least some connection to the most prominent such example from comics, especially in this case considering the long visual history of this sort of thing from Strange. It's not like the short blurb about him negates the extensive references to Arkham and HPL that precede it. In a lot of ways there are stronger ties between Strange and Argent Adept except for the explicit "magic spells" thing which I think bleeds over here. --WalkingTarget (talk) 09:11, 18 February 2017 (CST)


Timeline musings: Visionary

Unity's first appearance is in FFA #11 in the "mid '90s", the Annual books are published no more frequently than once a year, which means that Visionary's first appearance in FFA #16 has to be around the turn of the century at the earliest. I'm going to assign these to 1995 and 2000 to make the numbers easier. This also approximates her bio timeline given that she's not a child and traveled back in time to "our present" from 2018, so that if we assume she was 17 or 18 at the time that's about the right time for her to come back to in order to prevent Project Cocoon.

Visionary's card "Brain Burn" has a pull quote from the Moonfall limited series. Can we assume that this is the series involving the Impulsion Beam, given that title? It seems rather late in the timeline, and I also think it unlikely given the "first appearance" of Mad Bomber Blade is back in FF #258 (which I tentatively place in the mid '70s). Besides, several cards refer to the MDP as the location of this arc rather than Atlantis, so I'm discounting Moonfall as the "canonical" Blade fight.

We know that Visionary is the one to stop Citizen Dawn's major offensive in Megalopolis (that is, after Dawn's "canonical" fight in Insula Primalis). Per the Expatriette episode of The Letters Page, we know that this is after the Voss invasion, which I've tentatively placed in the late '90s (FF issue numbers, K.N.Y.F.E. present), so this pans out. This means that the Sunrise limited series is for this attack rather than the Insula Primalis one.

Kismet's canonical fight likely shortly after this given that Visionary's not Dark yet in the associated card art (so Mystery Comics #290 is probably 2000 or 2001), interestingly this means that Apostate's main fight in #369 is in 2007 or so unless MC got renumbered at some point. Aligning the Kismet events in MC with the presence of Nightmist in Atlantis for "Planar Banishment" doesn't quite work when placed next to the FF issue list unless there are missed months occasionally (Nightmist vs. Chokepoint for "Shocking Animation" in MC #480 winds up being just prior to Deadline's events in FF, which is too early for Chokepoint to be around. It's possible that Nightmist's presence in Atlantis is for the Baron Blade fight - pushing the Kismet fight slightly later could more readily align the Chokepoint event and then we come back to whether Moonfall is the canonical BB fight as this now allows Visionary to be present.

In any event, this all has to precede the canonical Gloomweaver fight. From Visionary's bio, we know that she entered her cocoon during a fight involving Gloomy, that this happened roughly a year after she came back to the past, and we also know from his episode of TLP that a newly-Dark Visionary was the one who banished him in this event. At the least, this means that the Gloomweaver fight is after Kismet's fight and that most of the card game events that Vis was present for are after she goes Dark.

The Dreamer event is "6 years" after she comes back, which is tricky to assess given sliding timescales in comics, but if we put it literally 6 years later in 2006, that's probably the next deck event she's involved in. It's possible that the fight with Plague Rat (she's on the "Ravage" card alongside Mr. Fixer and AZ) could be around this time, however (but the art for "Ravage" is non-Dark Vis... I had initially placed this near FF #617, around 2006 given some of the other heroes involved, but maybe this part of the events near MC #270 - which could be in that first year of her being in the present)

Vengeance seems to be in roughly 2011 (again at the earliest) by the same FFA issue timing, so that's likely next.

After that, I run into some mild problems. We know that she's involved in some team villain encounters - Biomancer, Hammer & Anvil, and Sgt. Steel at one point, but also her run-in with Bugbear (along with Fanatic all against Hammer & Anvil), but I can't tell the order of the fights here. This is probably the order, given that Bugbear wigging out again and injuring Fanatic in Prime Wardens #45 was only 15 issues before the death of Ra as we got to OblivAeon, but the PW issue numbers are giving me trouble across the board considering that it started around the time of FFA #10 in the early-to-mid '90s, so it either restarted or has significant gaps in its publishing history, which throws off any attempt to calculate/cross reference events using it.

We also see her fighting alongside Expat on H&A's "Incendiary Mummy" card, which is in a run of Tome of the Bizarre issues involving a number of team villans - given that it's an anthology book, though, the combinations of Bugbear, Biomancer, the Operative, and Hammer & Anvil might be in the same story or separate ones - Dark Watch members appear to be in all of them, though, so my guess is one contiguous fight.

Other stuff: she's present in the Science and Progress One-shot, which is also the first appearance of Friction. This implies that Friction's presence as Tachyon's intern is a retcon as Visionary's introduction is after that of Unity. She's in the Burying the Blade limited series, which seems to be dealing with his escape from prison just prior to Vengeance, right (unless it's a big foreshadowing of his "death" during OblivAeon)?